Creating Positive Cultures: Stories from the archive

Geri: 00:00:05

Welcome to Changing Academic Life. I'm Geraldine Fitzpatrick and this is a podcast series where academics and others share their stories, provide ideas and provoke discussions about what we can do individually and collectively to change academic life for the better. What are the everyday sorts of activities and interactions that we can have in our workplaces and in our research groups. That contribute to creating great research environments in which people can really do great work together. In this episode, we'll continue on this theme of research environments and research culture. And we'll do this by revisiting some snippets of past podcast conversations from way back in the archive where people have shared what they've been doing to foster a sense of belonging and to create collegial, supportive research cultures. Hearing these diverse voices and different approaches might provide some food for thought. And of course you can always go back and listen to the full conversations with the people that I've included here. And I'll include links to their episodes on the webpage for this episode. And at the end I will also point to yet more conversations that I haven't included. That also talk about culture if you were looking for more. Across the snippets. I think you'll recognize a lot of the themes that Nina from the Danish young academy identified across their research environment proposals. And so we'll hear things like the importance of recognizing everyone as an individual. And that can just be their own individual preferences and styles of working. It can be recognizing the particular strengths that they bring, recognizing their particular life circumstances and how they can be supported in that. We'll also hear about being very explicit about rewarding and celebrating both effort and achievements. We'll hear about creating situations. In which people can gather and meet and talk and just connect in different ways. Well, so I hear about the importance of transparency and clarity around roles and expectations. And also being realistic about what you can offer to people. And all of these sorts of things go towards fostering a sense of collegiality and community. And creating environments where people really do feel seen, heard. Valued and respected. All really key aspects for creating a sense of belonging. And that sense of belonging is also a key underpinning for what we talked about last episode, in terms of psychological safety. So the first extract I'd like to replay is from a 2021 conversation with Elizabeth Adams and Tanita Casci from Glasgow university. At Glasgow university, they had also implemented an awards program to celebrate good research cultures. And so they'll talk about that program a little bit. And also I've collated some where they talked about including collegiality as a criteria for promotion.

Elizabeth: 00:03:49

So we introduced the Research Culture Awards. maybe two years ago. We're on our third iteration now. And the purpose of the awards was really to showcase and highlight good practice or things that people were doing a little bit differently to try to bring about a positive research culture to run mentoring programs or early career researcher networks, or I think, supporting people to think about open research or just new ways of doing research that's maybe a little bit progressive and something that other people can learn from and to celebrate. I think the important thing for me is that the awards aren't just sitting there on their own, because I think if they were just out there on their own it would feel quite tokenistic, like that we once a year we celebrate the four things that people have done of being nice to each other, which, and it's not about that at all That's one strand of a bigger plan. So the fact that we've introduced collegiality into our professorial promotions criteria is really, really important in sending the message that this is important in all ways. And the awards is just one way of highlighting good practice, but also it's expected. that you will be collegiate in your teaching and in your research and your knowledge exchange and all the different things that you do and that you'll support others um and that by doing so um research is going to be better for everyone.

Tanita: 00:05:06

We try as much as possible to convey the idea that culture, as Elizabeth has said, is the vehicle to better research. It's not being nice to each other. We, you know, I hope we are. It's actually integral. to the process of developing good quality research that stands the test of time, that actually, you know, pushes the boundaries of knowledge, improves society, and creates a welcoming environment in which talented staff will be attracted to, uh, and can develop within. And we, we think very much about the academic output being publications, societal impact. But I would add to that, the people we develop, the skills that we put out into the world, the next generation of academics that we develop, that needs to be a crucial pillar of the academic endeavor. And so we should be asking every relevant, important opportunity, how an academic has supported the careers of those around them. And if someone hasn't taken the opportunity to give that back and to create that sense of community and camaraderie and, you know, that peer group that supports each other and what good quality research is, Then they're missing an important part of essentially what I think should be there, a fundamental aspect of their role.

Geri: 00:06:27

And isn't that a lovely challenge to us all. To think about what are the particular ways that we can give back to contribute to creating that sense of community and comraderie. To supporting one another. And that if we're not doing that, We're missing a really fundamental aspect of the academic endeavor, because as Tanita says at the end, It's the people we develop. That's a crucial pillar of that endeavor for the benefit of good science. Tanita also made the comment about, it's not just about being nice to one another for its own sake that it actually is what enables good science. And this theme is also picked up on, in a conversation with Jolanta Burke. Who was a positive psychologist and she was working at university of east London when we recorded this interview in 2017. And in this snippet, she's reflecting on this whole notion of positive organizations. And she also talks about the importance of. I guess what being nice enables in terms of bringing out the best in ourselves and bringing out the best in one another and working to our strengths. A theme that we'll also hear towards the end, in one of the final snippets.

Jolanta: 00:07:51

So I think positive organizations to me are organizations that understand the importance of. Working on people's strengths, on creating an environment that has a nice balance of, you know, creating positive emotions, but also negative emotions. They are really important in many situations, but understanding this rather than being, limited in your views and maybe focus on one theory or another. I think that's what's important and we definitely need to come out, go out to organizations with that message. And unfortunately, the positive in positive psychology sometimes is stopping us from doing it because the managers, leaders would straight away, say, you know what we don't need. We know that positivity is nice and happiness and well being, but this is not what it is about. And it is not about happiness. Positive organization is about high performance. It's about getting the best out of people and for people to get the best out of each other.

Geri: 00:08:52

So getting the best out of people and for people to get the best out of each other, that we can do that for each other. So this leads nicely to the next snippet. I want to share with you here. Which provides some practical examples for creating those positive cultures of care, I guess. And this is from a conversation that I recorded with Janet Reed. Who's a professor in child computer interaction at the university of central Lancashire. We've recorded this back in 2018, actually sitting in an airport if I remember correctly. So in this first part, Janet shares how important it is to understand the situation that people in, for example, people with young families and how to really support them in having a good home life, as well as a good work life.

Janet: 00:09:54

and we have these conversations in our group. Which is nice, that's why groups are good. Most of my group have got young families, so, I appreciate they want to go home and do sports day, they want to pick the kids up three days a week, or whatever, and, Whatever situation they find themselves in. Um, I've now got young grandchildren, sometimes I'm called upon to look after them. Sometimes I just want to go and have coffee with one of my daughters, and I think that's nice, you can do those things. So, when my two younger ones were little, The older ones were old enough to notice things. And they once said to me, Mum, when you're working at home, the children, the children, I mean this was the nine year old, you know, talking about the four year old. The children don't know if you're being a mum or not.

Geri: 00:10:37

Oh, goodness.

Janet: 00:10:39

That was very perceptive. And I've taken this to my team and I've said to my young team, who are young families, who've got young families, I'll say to them, guys, if you're going to work at home, don't work at home when you're being a parent. You know, it's not fair on your young children to do this, because my children told me this and, they'll say I'm working at home because they think it's convenient to work at home while they're looking after the kids. Dream on, you're looking after the kids, you're not working at home. And so I think that's an interesting conversation I think if you've got a An understanding manager, they will understand that if you are working at home for seven hours and you've got young children at home for seven hours, you're probably doing two hours worth of work, and there's only a certain type of work you can do in that environment.

Geri: 00:11:23

I love the respect and understanding that this shows in recognizing the situations that other people are in and. Just having that honest conversation about what your expectations are and that it's okay to put family first. Janet talks later on about also getting to know people and the ways in which they're different. So a short snippet on that from Janet.

Janet: 00:11:47

Other people can never work to deadline. You know, I have PhD students who never worked in, you know, they, they wanna have everything ready six days before. And I found that bizarre, I think, what's wrong with you? But you have to also understand that the people around you, and, and one of the things about teamwork, you know, in our team, you have to understand each other's team practices, and you have to understand how your colleagues,

Geri: 00:12:10

how you're going to negotiate those different preferences together, and how

Janet: 00:12:13

they want to work

Geri: 00:12:15

Janet also had some lovely things to say about how to be a manager who can help bring out the best in people. And she starts on this topic by reflecting on watching her daughter in a management role.

Janet: 00:12:32

So one of my daughters is a manager in a retail company. She manages the team and she is such a good manager. And I never understood management until I watched her. Watched her, as in not standing there, but watched her as a human doing management. And that's active person management, and she gets the best out of those people. And I think to myself, why have I not had the luxury of that kind of management? And that's a bit rubbish. Even her recruitment processes. Really robust. Yeah. Or appraisal processes are really robust and in university you don't get any of that. It's just kind of all a bit ad hoc. Yeah. Yes. You'd have thought the least you would do is try and not manage as in manage, but it's the fact that it's, it's the encouragement, the understanding individual needs. It's those key things. You encourage, you understand the needs, you motivate, you say, well done. Yes, you say well done. You say well done. Wouldn't it be nice to get a well done sometimes, Sam? Oh, well done, Janet. You know, the other day I actually emailed my boss and I said, Hey, I've had a great day, by the way, today. Two papers accepted, one funded bid submitted on a roll. Oh, yay. He did actually e mail back and say, great, that was nice, you know. But, you want a little bit of encouragement from time to time, you know. Indeed, yeah. What we have, we have this finish tape, you know, for Children's Sports Days. You know, on the run, they run across the finish line. So I bought this finish tape. And anyone who finishes something that they've really been struggling with, they can come to me and get a finish tape and we tape it across our doors. And then we had certificates. We've got, like, certificates of rosettes and things. We have, like, rosettes for great work. That's funny. I just think they're so, so important. But universities don't do this, do they?

Geri: 00:14:15

And do universities don't often do this, do they? But what, what are universities here? I mean, universities really are ultimately us. They're the people. And I think what Janet has pointed to so powerfully. Is how important just these little things are. So she says, just to repeat what she said. It's those key things. You encourage, you understand the needs you motivate, you say, well done. Wouldn't it be nice to get a well done sometimes. And so it's just these really little micro moments of connection and encouragement. That can make all the difference to people. And I love the example of using a finish tape that they hang up when they've overcome something that they've been struggling with, or little moments of celebrations. And. And gestures and rituals like their certificates. Small actions that can have a big impact. That all contribute to building this culture of collegiality and support. So I want to move on to the next conversation snippet. And this is with Alex Taylor. Who's a reader in the center for human computer interaction design at city, university of London. And we recorded this in his office in 2019. Alex particularly talks about the power of the collective. And he talks about that in a variety of different ways throughout the conversation. And here, I just pick up on some parts in which he talks about bringing people together, just through things like creating meeting groups or the reading groups or the different types of meetings that they might have. Again just creating those opportunities for people to gather and talk and share.

Alex: 00:16:15

and of course, you know, important, particularly important to me were the early career researchers, and that, as you say, they feel totally vulnerable because they don't have the position to say no. In fact, their careers depend on saying yes, and I just want to create the opportunities for them to come here or to work in place. You know, my, my only advice in it. Impoverished advice is to say, find the right people that will support you, that won't subject you to those sorts of pressures. And that allow you to flourish. But of course, that's, that's a non trivial thing. recommendation.

Geri: 00:16:56

But we can all be part of creating those spaces. Yeah. Just thinking back, um, from the beginning of this sort of university position to now, and you talked about learning, not that you don't have to be good at everything. And so what would be some of the sort of key other lessons that you've. learned

Alex: 00:17:17

I've said this a few times, but I, I don't think there's any easy answers. And I think this sense of having people with you, um, and creating an environment in which everyone can be the best that they can be, not the worst. Not the worst and I think, again, that sounds incredibly grand, but I think it gets done in small ways. Um, and, you know, we've really, within the centre, enlivened these senses of meetings, not just for meetings sake, but for spaces in which we allow thinking to flourish.

Geri: 00:17:59

So how do you do that practically?

Alex: 00:18:02

So I think it is about getting the right people to set the groundwork for these spaces of, of thinking. So in our writing group, we've just hired a new, lecturers, Sarah Heitlinger, who, has, has been doing some great sort of feminist inspired work and she's really trying to set in place, uh, a turn to the writing group, much like Ali Black spoke about. I have a reading group and it's about, you know, I'm designing that reading group to think both about obviously content that's relevant to our students, our PhD students and postdocs, et cetera, but also that starts to introduce, um, these layers of thinking and criticality. And so, as we started off saying earlier on. These modes of being critical are not somehow in parallel to what we do, they're part of, they furnish our intellectual capacities. And so it's, it's letting those things live together. Um, Simone Stumpf, one of our other senior lecturers, is running a research group. And, you know, everyone has a voice. Everyone has the capacity to bring work. Um, and I think it's just great. And these things, of course, all take time. Well,

Geri: 00:19:24

I was just going to ask, how do you get people together?

Alex: 00:19:28

Yeah, not everyone comes. I think you have to kind of work from where people are able to make these. And, so in my own reading group, I don't enforce it. And different weeks, we have different people. And that's why, in a way, I think it's about giving a sense of the environment we're in and what we're open to.

Geri: 00:19:56

Yeah. Yeah. So would these groups happen each of them every week or is there some sort of rhythm?

Alex: 00:20:05

My reading group's every other week. Yeah. the writing group is every week. It's a two hour block. Mm. Mm. You bring something, um, and we kind of talk about through what, what we're doing. I think we're thinking also of having writing retreats where, you know, there's a different emphasis. Um, the research group is once a week, we have a once a week seminar. And again, you know, each of these things on their own could, could be trivial. But collectively, who you ask to come and talk in a seminar series, who you read, what you write about together, um, all those things start to add up. Yeah. And set. these conditions for what we're in business about.

Geri: 00:20:53

I can see lots of ways that these would be really useful in creating spaces for people just to connect. Yeah. For learning from each other, from being supported, helping the intellectual endeavor. I mean, there's just

Alex: 00:21:09

To make that possible for people and to, for, especially for those who are new to an academic environment. life to realize that there are places like that. Um.

Geri: 00:21:22

And they're all very collective. You know, everyone's got something to contribute. Absolutely. And conveying that message. Yeah, I

Alex: 00:21:28

really am, you know, I'm thrilled to be part of a, a center and an organization that, wants it. that wills people to have a voice.

Geri: 00:21:40

So some lovely examples there of creating the spaces in which people can come together. And I love that emphasis on enabling people to have a voice. The next one is a short example from Kia Hook. Kia is a professor in interaction design at KTH in Stockholm, Sweden. And we've recorded this in person in 2017. And Kia, will talk about a particular practice that they have in Sweden that you may well have heard of. Called Fika. And she will explain this and, and their different sort of approach in how they encourage people to come together for Fika.

Kia: 00:22:26

Oh yeah, yeah. We had a very, very strong culture, very much like you come to the seminars and we had, you know, the Swedish fika. So, uh, it's coffee, coffee breaks. So we had one enforced fika every week on Wednesdays where everybody had to come.

Geri: 00:22:44

and

Kia: 00:22:45

drink coffee and sit around and socialize. We call it the enforced socializing. And it's so funny because I would walk through the center. This is an open office landscape. I would walk through the center and say, okay, now it's three o'clock and it's Wednesday. It's enforced socializing. You come now. And people were, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just need to, you know. And then they would come, and then I couldn't make them leave, because they were all like, blub, blub, blub, blub, you know, talking about their research, uh, and so these things are super important. So we did that, we did joint trips, we would hold full day meetings at a partner location, we would hold a meeting at Ericsson or, or Nokia or whatever, you know, so we really worked hard on, uh, making this one center

Geri: 00:23:34

So again, another example of very deliberately creating the spaces and opportunities for people to get together. And, and it also reflects quite a different approach to what we heard Alex talk about in terms of encouraging and making people attend. And so I come to the final snippet that I want to replay here. And that's from a conversation with Lindsay Oades. Lindsey is a professor at the university of Melbourne and director of the center for positive psychology there. And this is a conversation that we had in 2018, when we were both at the positive psychology conference. What Lindsay starts off reflecting on is the importance of autonomy for many academics. But also the parallel importance of helping create clarity through providing rationale for people. It's that finding that balance between letting people be totally free to run off and do what they want. Versus micromanaging. And so that sort of a clarity of roles and expectations and transparency is really important. And he also goes on to talk about, people not being dumb and that people really want to feel valued. And that it's important that we tell people what we value about them. And to help them recognize what their own strengths are and to help them be able to shape their own work with the term job crafting. Now, during this conversation, this really interesting part of the conversation. Unfortunately, we did have a problem with Lindsay's microphone. It fell down a bit and neither of us saw it early enough. So see how you go understanding what he says in his own words. And if you can't understand it, stay to the end of the podcast. And I will repeat verbatim what he said there so that you don't miss out on his lovely insights. So this is Lindsay.

Lindsay: 00:25:51

The academics also, they love autonomy and, but they also love a rationale. So, self determination theory, for example, will tell us, give people autonomy but also give them a rationale for what, so autonomy doesn't mean anything goes, it means, like, for example, we got, we got some big research income targets we got to hit, um, that's an external thing, we got to hit it, it's expected, um, so it's, here's our challenge, we got to hit this, we got to hit this research income target, you That's not really that negotiable. We've got to get these we've got to get in this zone with this level of staff This is what's expected How do we do it and then let the smart people do it don't come in and tell them and that they've got to have micromanaged bits and pieces And some of them the whinge they'll say but it at it But there's a rationale for why they've got to do it and where, how they'll usually find a way, um, because they're not dumb people.

Geri: 00:26:55

So this, this points to you as a leader or a director of center needing very good people skills and being prepared to take the time and having your patience that you talked about earlier And in part of responding to this, he talks about a strategy document. They have that helps people see where they fit in. And this is also where the audio quality starts to deteriorate a little bit more, as I said, see how you go.

Lindsay: 00:27:21

And I've really been pushing the strategy document so that people can see where they fit in where we're trying to go. Um, and that takes time. It does. It actually takes a lot of time.

Geri: 00:27:34

I'm always interested in turning our research back on ourselves. So if you think about what you would say to workplaces, if you're doing well being in the workplace consultancy externally, And then you turn the lens back into your own centre or academia generally. What are the things that we're not doing well or you're not doing well or whatever that we would be telling other people to do?

Lindsay: 00:28:00

It sounds really trite, but the evidence bears it out. Fundamentally, people at work often feel undervalued. In general or by their immediate boss.

Geri: 00:28:14

Yeah.

Lindsay: 00:28:15

So simple things about what do you actually value about your staff? And have you told them and in what medium have you told them? So that, that's probably number one. Yeah. And number two would be the stuff we've been talking about too before about strengths. Have you actually had conversations with staff Oh. About their role in the job description and how it can be crafted so they can use their strengths more than they currently are. And that might take time as well. It's not, because there are organizational constraints that, you know, you've got to deliver this or we've got to get this class taught or we've got to generate this income or we've got to get that contract done. So right this moment, we might not be able to. get you exactly fully there but at least having a conversation so there's a plan of how it's going to migrate there um and that those conversations are important because again with academics if there's a rationale and there's been a conversation they'll probably accept it for a while yes if there's a good intent yes yeah um so there's a couple of things here that's just that that that Enabling them to feel valued and then enabling them to use this strengths and mold their work, or job craft their work.

Geri: 00:29:41

And so I love that, I love that valuing because that talks about that issue that you mentioned earlier about not getting any local validation and, but that we can still do that as managers as with anyone that we work with, whether you're the director of a center or project team, or even just a colleague, we could do that colleague to colleague, couldn't we? And now this is me back in real time. I really loved those two simple things that he talked about. One is, what do you actually value about the people that you're working with? And have you told them. Have you told them. And the second one was having the conversations that are about their strengths and how you can help people shape their work, to better fit their strengths, where they're going to do a much better job. And it's also a way of bringing out the best in people that connects to what Janet said and, and what others have talked about. So I hope these snippets from different people over the years might give some food for thought about just different ways that you might contribute to creating the sort of environments that you want to see. Recognizing that we all have a part to play. We can all make a difference. And they don't need to be grand gestures. They can just be little everyday things. Uh, small actions can have a really big impact. And go a long way towards creating cultures that are collegial and supportive. And then enable us to do great work together. And the snippets that I presented here from way back in the archive. And so if you're interested in the scene to more conversations, Uh, that also pick up on notions of culture and creating great work environments in different ways. I can recommend a couple of others that you might put on your listening list. So Sarah Davies in part two of my conversation with her. Sarah talked a lot about creating cultures of care and things like setting expectations, as well as acknowledging the work, especially the sort of invisible work that people do that go to contributing to great cultures. Mark Reed in the conversation with him, he talked about building a compassionate culture and then talked about what that meant. Karen Stroobants in my conversation with her talked about culture. More generally. And in particular about how we need change of culture. As a key part of how we shift the emphasis on just having, for example, high impact journal. Papers as the only output that we value. And that we need to change that. And Elizabeth Churchill. Also talked about what they were doing at Google when she worked there towards creating more inclusive cultures and in particular, she focused on building a team culture. So there are some other pointers that you may want to go back and listen to. And gather more ideas. And I invite you just to leave this thinking about. What might be one or two small actions that you can do right now, right today. That contributes to creating the culture that you want. You can find the summary notes, a transcript, and related links for this podcast on www. changingacademiclife. com. You can also subscribe to Changing Academic Life on iTunes, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. And I'm really hoping that we can widen the conversation about how we can do academia differently. And you can contribute to this by rating the podcast and also giving feedback. And if something connected with you, please consider sharing this podcast with your colleagues together. We can make change happen. As promised, I'm going to read out what I could transcribe from what Lindsay said when we had that microphone drop. So you may remember that he'd been talking about just letting smart people get on and do it and you don't have to tell them they have to have micromanaged parts that'll usually find a way. So he continues saying, You have to do this both individually and as a group. And I've been trying to push this strategy document so people can see where they fit. into it and where we want to go. And that takes time. I raised some question then about turning the lens back onto academia. And he says, it sounds really trite, but the evidence bears it out. Fundamentally, people at work often feel undervalued in general or by their immediate boss. So simple things about what do you actually value about your staff and have you told them? And in what medium have you told them? So that's number one. And number two would be the stuff we talked about before about strengths. Have you actually had conversations with staff about their role, and the job description, and how it can be crafted, so that they can use their strengths more than they currently are? And that might take time as well, because there are organizational constraints, that you have to deliver this, or get this class taught, or we've got to generate that income, or we've got to get that contract done. So, while at this moment we can't get you exactly fully there, at least we have that conversation, so there's a plan of how it's going to migrate there. And those conversations are really important, because again with academics, if there is a rationale and there has been a conversation, they'll probably accept it for a while if there's good intent. So there's a couple of things there, enabling them to feel valued, and enabling them to use their strengths and mould their work, job craft their work from a strength space.